A thought provoking pair of blogs, thanks. Sorry for the late comment, but I’ve not been reading your blog for a bit. Have caught up now though.

Just to be clear, I am born and bred British, and have emigrated to Norway, where there are also a lot of Poles. Many of them work in practical occupations, where they are desperately needed, partly due to the very strict Norwegian legislation on how household improvements (e.g. electrics) are to be done, which makes it very hard to get hold of a tradesman. I have met very pleasant and impressive Polish immigrants, whom I know to be fairly recent immigrants (but would have no way of knowing, of course – hence the British attitude lumping Polonia and the new wave together). My main point though is that perhaps the decline in the reputation of Polish immigrants in the UK is not entirely their fault. Yes, Polish immigrants had an excellent reputation as I was growing up – part of this was due to the older generation remembering their superb contribution to the RAF during the Second World War, as well as their behaviour within society – we are quite a nostalgic nation. However, Polonia was relatively small compared to today’s numbers of Polish immigrants, and in the past, whenever a wave of immigration has taken place into the UK, which has put pressure on the job market – or at least has been perceived to do so, racism and discrimination against the immigrants has begun. I feel that to some extent this is true now with the Poles in the UK. Yes, I’m sure there are some bad apples in the migrants, but in my experience, a lot of people who move countries are the more enterprising people, and I think that a significant part of the new immigrants’ bad reputation is due to the fact that they are seen by some as taking job opportunties away from British young people (many of whom, don’t in fact really want the jobs anyway!). I don’t think the whole blame should be on the new immigrants for this.

Pawel – Jersey sounds lovely, as does your Babcia!

I live and study in Poland (Toruń), and if I were moving – it would rather be in the direction of Warsaw or Gdynia, then London. At lest that’s what I have now in my mind.

I happen to pop to Britain every summer holiday, doing a pilgrimage to my friends who live there (and because it’s fun thing to do on a summer holiday).
Most of them live in Jersey, and that’s where I eventually end up for two or so months after wondering a bit about London, and going out in Soho.
Jersey jest fantastyczną małą wyspą, skrzyżowaniem wioski z City. Po ‘centrum’ St. Helier krążą tabuny białych kołnieżyków a kawałek dalej na polu pasą się krowy. Pracuę tam jako kelner na te wakacyjne wydatki, wdycham świeże powietrze, rozsmakowywuję się w kuchniach świata, leżę bykiem na plaży, to co się zwykle robi na wakacjach:)

What you say about the carpenters, they have some aims of their and this lifestyle suits them probably. And I’m sure it wouldn’t be easy for them, even if they wanted to learn English. They would have to pay for classes, find the time etc., which could collide with work, they would be probably exhausted etc.
I couldn’t see myself in their place however.

As to babcias, they come in all varieties:) I can’t see mine appreciating heavy metal, but she did smoke joints:)

Also, it’s interesting that you never thought of Polonia as a minority community. Maybe we (British born) have been indoctrinated with British PC-ness and find it necessary to place everyone in the relevant pigeonhole?

You know, I don’t have a problem with people coming over with no English (after all, that was my parents and grandparents 60 years ago). In fact, I find it pretty amazing what they can achieve.

To give you an example – we have a clan of male carpenters from near Krakow renting my brother’s flat in south east London. There are about 7 of them we think, but we can’t be sure because they keep coming and going and multiplying (it’s a big family). They’re in London for the money – nothing else. No visits to the Tate Modern, cappuccinos or hanging out in Hoxton for them. They speak pretty much no English, never go out and are completely helpless if they are asked to go on the tube to somewhere they haven’t first been led to. But they pay their rent on time, redecorate the flat every 6 months and grow carrots in the garden. I think that being isolated like that in London, with only other men from their family for support, gives them the drive that they need to do what they need to do. However, the lack of language means that they can only work for other Polish people and as a result, they have been completely ripped off by the Polish woman they work for (a 1980’s vintage) – she owes them 9 weeks wages. Slowly they’ve been finding new jobs but essentially they are helpless but they keep going. I have so much respect for them as they’re really clear what they want out of life, and it has nothing to do with building a life for themselves in the UK but everything to do with building a life for themselves and their families back in Poland. I don’t know if it’s my character or a result of my upbringing (we must do what we can to help our countrymen) but it’s not a difficult decision to help these people out when necessary.

As for Babcie- well, mine was hopelessly Polish to the very end. I think she only ever spoke in English when shopping. On the other hand, my brother did teach her how to appreciate heavy metal and how to distinguish a joint from a cigarette. I’m not sure I can see a home grown () Babcia doing that.

And yes, I speak Polish. I never thought I’d be grateful for those endless Saturdays spent in bloody Polska Szkola…

The Polonia is a British minority group, I think that’s important to get across. I think that there may be similarities between babcias in Poland and Brit-Polish babcias in the UK but there are also huge differences in mindset.

Yes, I do speak Polish.

I mean it’s really good that the Polonia is there for the lost and the needy, but these people, in my opinion, should have really their trip to England better thought through. It made me wonder why Poles would rather relocate abroad than to another part of Poland… There are places where unemployment is very low. And no one needs to speak English, or deal with different culture, etc.

The thing with communities is that maybe it’s not something people feel they need in Poland (or they think it won’t change anything – or are just preoccupied with other things).

Although probably people start to see that it’s easier to achieve something working with others than individually. Very often people complain let’s say about lack of bike lanes. Only when a group of bikers in my town founded an association, city council felt that really have to deal them and their needs. Now there is a comprehensive plan for developing the bike lane system.

I never really thought of Polonia as a minority community. I thought of them as simply Polish. I didn’t see many differences between older British Polonia ladies and my grandmother – besides the difference of perspective. She’s equally critical and judgemental;) Yet that’s what we love:)

Do you guys speak Polish?

The fact is, and you mention this yourself, that the Polonia community HAS found a job for itself (I’m giving Pawel the nod here) because they are helping the new immigrants with their new life. Yes, there are animosities but that doesn’t stop them helping and genuinely wanting to help. I’ve seen it lots of times whenever I go back to England.

It’s actually very amusing. The grannies share a coffee and chit-chat about the new demoralised ‘Polacy’ on the one hand but then put them up for the night, fill out their employment forms and give them money on the other. It’s very refreshing to see people help (and want nothing back) even though they don’t agree (or particularly like) the people they are helping.